tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post2353915921930314012..comments2024-03-27T12:45:25.066+00:00Comments on Moviestorm Blog: Moviestorm Light - and DarkAKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11017703582659729600noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-4074260924984348552009-10-20T21:30:05.116+01:002009-10-20T21:30:05.116+01:00@Hugh wrote: "A word of caution - I've se...@Hugh wrote: "A word of caution - I've seen Machinima and Machinima producers abandon real-time rendering a whole bunch of times. It's rarely worked out well."<br /><br />Got any examples? I wasn't aware this was being attempted all that often.Overmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10387097407119598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-41976057086535941952009-10-19T23:40:50.186+01:002009-10-19T23:40:50.186+01:00I'm all for any tricks that make the final ren...I'm all for any tricks that make the final render as pristine as possible. <br /><br />Because I go back and forth from my MacBook Pro 17" running OSX and a monster Dell PC running Vista, I have to use it at basic graphics level on the mac, then when i copy over the project on the pc I can crank it. Price of mobility.<br /><br />Of course, my biggest distraction is the lack of content. I. Need. More. <br /><br />JoelJoel Lovellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11327523450299427936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-21888433516973031432009-10-19T11:32:21.898+01:002009-10-19T11:32:21.898+01:00A word of caution - I've seen Machinima and Ma...A word of caution - I've seen Machinima and Machinima producers abandon real-time rendering a whole bunch of times. It's rarely worked out well. Being forced to work in real-time is a significant part of the style - as soon as there's the possibility of a higher-quality render if you just wait a day, it becomes very hard not to use that as your default view, and use the real-time view just as a rough preview. <br /><br />Having said that, things may have changed since the last time we went through this, or there might be a clever workflow workaround. I'm not saying "non-realtime is DOOOM!" necessarily, but it's tended to bog down any production that got involved with it.Hughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06431748370729945514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-17577528411308740132009-10-17T22:05:56.005+01:002009-10-17T22:05:56.005+01:00how about plugging the Moviestorm output (geometry...how about plugging the Moviestorm output (geometry and lighting)into a nice ray tracing engine. <br /><br />I can wait for it to take 30 seconds a frame on a G200<br /><br />http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/587936-youtube-nvidia-interactive-raytracing-engine-demo.html <br /><br />or, as is 'coming soon', I would love to see what we could do uploading the scenes to the AMD Fusion Rendering Cloud <br /><br />http://developer.amd.com/gpu_assets/ATIGPGPUComputingFusionRenderCloudGDC09CompatibilityMode.pdf<br /><br />http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=86846DavidBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02981906008478767303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-6124554302805107022009-10-16T19:49:49.627+01:002009-10-16T19:49:49.627+01:00I would find the high quality shadows at render to...I would find the high quality shadows at render to be the most desirable. What we have is good enough for real-time preview.<br /><br />I think that in light of the coffers not be bottomless at MS Towers, it is best to concentrate resources on the solution that will effect the most people the most strongly. Visual quality moves us all. Go ahead and add a few more goodies in at render time asd well. I know there is a lot of work going on towards filters that apply in post, so I say go ahead and make the shadows super awesome, and let a movie render in a longer time. The final render has never been in real-time anyway. Thats why our movies always will play at the proper frame rate. Remember how game based Machinima can slow down and speed up because its being recorded in real-time. SF chose very wisely to have the final render not real-time.rampahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04877278888453191676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-28860915442640200172009-10-16T02:12:00.878+01:002009-10-16T02:12:00.878+01:00Thank you for sharing these emails with the Movies...Thank you for sharing these emails with the Moviestorm public. I think it's a sign of the commitment to the community (and to Moviestorm development) that you'd push the lighting/shadows issue to the fore instead of avoiding the problem (like many other software developers do). <br /><br />Phil and I have just finished watching over 150 machinima films, many of whom were made in Moviestorm and the single technical problem with many of these films is the flickering shadows. And even though Moviestorm can produce some of the best looking scenes in machinima, they often lose believability when shadows are popping on the side of a face or on part of a characters costume. <br /><br />I agree that soft shadows would be much preferable to flickering ones. Having the ability to choose between the two would be ideal. Also, the short term fix you suggest of using a higher density shadow map (or perhaps the ability to change this manually) could help with the problem until you come up with a longer term solution. <br /><br />Good luck!Ricky Lee Grovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03588565441793716202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-61966576442510309012009-10-15T22:53:15.202+01:002009-10-15T22:53:15.202+01:00I'll add another vote to ForgeUK's suggest...I'll add another vote to ForgeUK's suggestion of an advanced/enhanced rendering mode. That would be stupendous.Chat Noir Studioshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15458158952535043600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-60554459016585637642009-10-15T22:36:04.175+01:002009-10-15T22:36:04.175+01:00Since I've come to Moviestorm, the product has...Since I've come to Moviestorm, the product has improved dramatically. It's appearance, ease of use, visual resolution, and functionality are all leaps and bounds above where it was 2 years ago.<br /><br />All that being said, light and shadow (two things MS has always done), hasn't really improved much in that time.<br /><br />From Overman's 1-2 year old pioneer post asking about directional lighting to Hugh Hancock's 1-2 year old suggestions about the same, on through every post about buggy shadows, I've read every post on the subject.<br /><br />I agree with Phil, and since Dave is in agreement, Dave as well. Given a choice, soft shadows are preferred, flashing is the most annoying, give us the option for advanced shadow rendering, and ForgeUK hit it on the head, extra time for an 'extended final render mode' for crisp beautiful everything wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I'd actually love to wait longer if it solved this issue, yes please!AngriBuddhisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17465635317127638830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-76685871463395887052009-10-15T22:09:37.975+01:002009-10-15T22:09:37.975+01:00Both the jagged edges and the flickering of the sh...Both the jagged edges and the flickering of the shadows make me often decide against using shadows at all - or doing a scene from a far off viewpoint with shadows, and a close-up without them (I did that in the darker scenes of Saving Grace). The flickering shadows on a face spoil everything for me, so I put them off (even if my heart bleeds for the loss of visual impact).<br /><br />I can say that if the shadows were better looking, I would use them far, far more often, because shadows add so much to the atmosphere of a film!<br /><br />I agree with Phil - I wouldn't mind so much if the shadows looked shitty in preview when they wou look great and crisp in the render!sischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10431147694855095972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-86979745293835532382009-10-15T21:33:57.348+01:002009-10-15T21:33:57.348+01:00I've tinkered with the shadows, and yes, I wou...I've tinkered with the shadows, and yes, I would have liked shadows without the jaggy edges. I'm not really so aware of flickering shadows though - hadn't noticed that.<br />The idea of "draft mode" shadows in real time with proper shadows in render would be acceptable to me.<br />I also think it would be cool if light didn't pass through solid walls. Yes, we learn to work around it... but it would make for better lightscapes. (Is that a word?)IceAxehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05420195732993899015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-41738804586155809962009-10-15T21:19:46.005+01:002009-10-15T21:19:46.005+01:00I've mentioned it before, but I'll say it ...I've mentioned it before, but I'll say it again now. It would be nice to have a 'final render' mode that takes 3 days/months to render, but looks photo-realistic and bloody fantastic, which may be getting away from the speedy near-live production of machinima, but would be nice all the same. This would include proper, realistic shadows and ray tracing, but that's maybe some way in the future, so a step towards that would be very nice. Having said that, the rendering quality in Moviestorm has improved over the last year.Satscapehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06282630505244489919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-6000433064889657712009-10-15T20:30:21.044+01:002009-10-15T20:30:21.044+01:00First of all, thanks for the new update! Although ...First of all, thanks for the new update! Although I have ran into a few bugs, the workflow speed increase is <b>so</b> nice. <br /><br />In regards to the shadow issues - I think that the best option is to allow the end-user to select the level of soft v. hard edges. The same end-user options should be available between "real-time" rendering (as it is now) and a more intense (multi-layer) rendering process that would take more time but provide a higher qulaity end result.<br /><br />I have a question about the jagged shadow edges. Can anything be done with antialinsing to reduce the shadow jags?<br /><br />I am so excited about the future of MovieStorm. Thank you for all your hard work.LivingRockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06444455165993387483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1960520382198411273.post-12096601041112291552009-10-15T20:00:22.420+01:002009-10-15T20:00:22.420+01:00don't let dave sleep until it's this gooddon't let dave sleep until it's <a href="http://www.kunzhou.net/2008/kdtree.pdf" rel="nofollow">this</a> goodtwakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04403836565804589670noreply@blogger.com